Sunday, November 14, 2004
A Conversation with BlogFrog4
OK… got the Marine Corps Birthday and Veterans Day out of the way, so now time to get back into the thinking mode. Now for any new reader to this Blog, may I suggest you scroll down to the previous article and comments to it before reading this one. Otherwise, you will not receive the full level of confusion of this discussion. So, go on.. Read the previous articles then come on back.
(We pause for this commercial break. Picture a lithe brunette running through a field of daisies with a soundtrack by John Williams. You can decide what the commercial is all about.)
Alright, everyone caught up now? If not, don’t even begin to blame me for any additional confusion here. You were warned.
I am going to write this in an interview manner. He said, I said kind of thing. This way I can be accused of taking things out of context. And I hope that BlogFrog4 understands that I am going to use BF4 when referring to him as I shall use CL in referring to myself.
And Now we begin…….
BF4: Over 1,000 servicemen have died in Iraq. By some estimates over 10,000 Iraqis have been killed.
CL: Yes, the loss of any individual saddens this old Infantryman’s heart. And as crass as this may sound we must remember, you take the pay, you accept the chances. But also consider this. In many ways those people are safer there then here at home. The National Transportation and Safety Board predicts over 47,000 people will die on our nations highways this year. Approximately 750 will die in boating accidents. And having been where those young men and women are currently at, I can say there has been many times I have felt more in danger on our public highways then I felt in a hostile fire zone. At least there, you can shoot back.
And why does this bother you so badly? Men and women die daily while in service to this country. Not in combat, but from accident or incident. Unless it is a spectacular situation, no one but the families are ever aware of these things. In all my years of service I cannot remember a single year in which we did not loose a single man in a Battalion size unit. Dead is dead. Nothing can change that simple fact of life.
As far as the Iraqi deaths, if they were combatants, they took their chances. I can only feel a certain level of remorse for an innocents killed by either side. But be careful about pointing out Iraqi deaths. Embedded reporters during this current operational phase have reported killing rooms, where the insurgents have murdered innocent people by the dozens. One mosque was found to contain hundreds of bodies. People killed by insurgents in hopes that US Forces would attack the mosque in such a way they could blame the deaths on us.
BF4: There have been no WMD’s found….
CL: Wrong. Of course, I’m fairly sure what that statement is based upon is that no warehouse or stockpile with neon signs saying “WMD’s Stored Here” have been found. But I am sure the two Explosive Ordinance Disposal people who were exposed to Sarin when an field expedient munitions device they were disarming exploded will argue with you. As Stormin’ Norman said, “It only takes one landmine to make it intense”, it only takes one shell, missile, rocket, canteen or bucket of a tactical chemical agent to prove the existence of WMD’s.
Then you have video evidence of Saddam’s use of WMD’s on his own people and on the Army of Iran. Toss in Former President Clinton’s comments on Larry King Live about knowing Iraqi had WMD’s on the last day of his term in office. GW acted on the best intelligence he had at hand at the moment. Keep that in mind.
BF4: ….nor have ties been established between Al Qaeda and Saddam.
CL: Although it can be debated and even though I view this with a cautious eye, the 911 Commission does show the possibility of a link. Note I said possibility. It does report of two separate meetings between Al Qaeda terrorists and agents of Iraqi’s Intelligence community. You can argue with me on this, but being an observer of Saddam and his son’s leads me to believe that the meetings were never held without approval of one of the three and knowledge of all of them. It has been reported on many occasions of the tight controls Saddam and his sons had over ever aspect of Iraqi.
Any link here is tedious to say the least. But we must never forget an old saying. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” war and hate makes strange bedfellows, even when partners have such a diversely different goal in mind.
BF4: The Justice Department, aside from John Walker Lyndh, has not successfully prosecuted one terrorist.
CL: And your point is??
BF4: The Middle East peace process is moribund….
CL: Like this is news? The Middle East has been fouled up since the British refused to give the Arabs their own state back at the end of WWI. And just how far back in history do you really wish to travel? So may I suggest that both political parties have been screwing this one up for years.
BF4: ….unemployment is up while training and benefits for the unemployed are down, ….
CL: Back up and regroup troop. The current report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows employment down and has been going down over the past several months.. It also shows over 2 million new jobs created over the past year. And as far as benefits are concerned, in my home state the benefits come from the state, not the Federal Government. So I cannot express any thoughts on why you see benefits are down. Does the Federal Government provide moneys for unemployment benefits and/or training? I’m sure they do, but never depend on the Federal Government to do what a person can do for themselves.
BF4: …the Pentagon is now investigating Halliburton….
CL: Again… you point is? Just before Eisenhower left office, he warned of the Military/Industrial Complex. If you think what Haliburton may or may not have done is an indication of wrong doings due to Cheney’s past relationship with them, might I bring to light these things have been happening as long as a private contractor has been doing business with the Government. If Cheney had not been the VP, no one would have paid much attention to the investigation. Or even if any wrong doing had occurred. Besides, what has the Pentagon investigating Haliburton to do with the price of tea in Lower Slobovia?
BF4:…No Child Left Behind is under funded, ….
CL: I haven’t really looked into this program to express an informed comment. But one comment I will make is that I’m never seen any program from Congress be as fully funded as they initially plan nor as some out in the streets believe it should be funded. Let’s see what happens during this next session of Congress.
BF4: ……and the EPA is ignoring existing laws and adjusting current toxicity levels of every thing from arsenic in our water to lead in our air.
CL: Boy, this is a two edged sword. The EPA can only do what it is funded to do and with the funds they have to work with. Yeah, I know, the funds currently comes via a Republican controlled Congress. But, and not knowing BF4’s background, I will make an odd comment here. The EPA and OSHA have probably caused more ’Outsourcing’ then any other organizations in the country. When they tighten the screws too tight in protecting us, it can seriously hurt productivity. And in doing so, increases the costs of manufacturing. When the cost gets too high, something has to give and if a price increase cannot be tolerated then finding a source for cheaper product must be found. Consider the implications.
Now having said that, both the EPA and OSHA have done great things in providing the oversight and protection of the people of this country. But all in all, not everyone can be protected from everything. Besides, I can remember a time when things were much worse in this country where the environment is concerned. If you wish a pristine environment, try Pluto. Mankind has yet to dump anything on it’s surface yet.
BF4: Corporate scandals have rocked Wall Street, resulting in the implosion of no less than three major US companies, with the resulting loses being felt on Main Street.
CL: I know how to answer this, but shall I? The corporations alluded too did not implode over night. Oh well, does Whitewater have any meaning?
Now for the rest of the story. I have noticed how the Left has taken to using Hollywood’s version of the American Cowboy as their model for GW. Notice I said Hollywood’s version. Historically, a Cowboy is dependable, conservative and given to a Live and Let Live attitude about others. They are slow to anger and take every chance to ease tensions without violence. They believe in working hard for what they get and look upon handouts as an insult. Push one too far and he will hand you your head. And he has no use for anyone expecting someone else to take care of them when they are capable of a days work.
Having made the choice between a rich woman’s Poodle and a Cowboy, I feel much safer today. Nothing more annoying in the world then a yip yapping Poodle that everyone knows will not bite you.
One thread of thought I have heard since the election is from those on the left side of the aisle who consider those from ‘red’ states are too stupid to take care of themselves. Arrogance. Pure and simple. I think it would behoove those in the offended political party to adjust their thinking and consider that maybe, just maybe those of us in ‘red’ states are sick and tired of being talked down too. Tired of picking up the bill so a politician can buy votes with welfare projects that only benefit a select few and not the nation as a whole. Maybe, just maybe we are just tired of it all.
Remember history. The Civil War did not start with the shots fired at Fort Sumter. It started in 1854, seven years earlier when what is now ‘blue’ states were forcing their economic and political will on what is now ‘red’ states. The issue of slavery was but a small part of the over all picture. The cannon fire in 1861 just opened Act II of a war that was already in process.
I stated in my original reply to BlogFrog4’s comments that this was a learning experience. The further I research his comments the more I agree with my initial statements. I had really hoped that BlogFrog4 could have given me something to really sink my teeth into and expanded my horizons. What I got was the Old Party Lines. I am disappointed.
I could continue but this has gone far enough for today.
Happy Trails
Indian Territory
13 November 2004
(revised 14 Nov 04)
(We pause for this commercial break. Picture a lithe brunette running through a field of daisies with a soundtrack by John Williams. You can decide what the commercial is all about.)
Alright, everyone caught up now? If not, don’t even begin to blame me for any additional confusion here. You were warned.
I am going to write this in an interview manner. He said, I said kind of thing. This way I can be accused of taking things out of context. And I hope that BlogFrog4 understands that I am going to use BF4 when referring to him as I shall use CL in referring to myself.
And Now we begin…….
BF4: Over 1,000 servicemen have died in Iraq. By some estimates over 10,000 Iraqis have been killed.
CL: Yes, the loss of any individual saddens this old Infantryman’s heart. And as crass as this may sound we must remember, you take the pay, you accept the chances. But also consider this. In many ways those people are safer there then here at home. The National Transportation and Safety Board predicts over 47,000 people will die on our nations highways this year. Approximately 750 will die in boating accidents. And having been where those young men and women are currently at, I can say there has been many times I have felt more in danger on our public highways then I felt in a hostile fire zone. At least there, you can shoot back.
And why does this bother you so badly? Men and women die daily while in service to this country. Not in combat, but from accident or incident. Unless it is a spectacular situation, no one but the families are ever aware of these things. In all my years of service I cannot remember a single year in which we did not loose a single man in a Battalion size unit. Dead is dead. Nothing can change that simple fact of life.
As far as the Iraqi deaths, if they were combatants, they took their chances. I can only feel a certain level of remorse for an innocents killed by either side. But be careful about pointing out Iraqi deaths. Embedded reporters during this current operational phase have reported killing rooms, where the insurgents have murdered innocent people by the dozens. One mosque was found to contain hundreds of bodies. People killed by insurgents in hopes that US Forces would attack the mosque in such a way they could blame the deaths on us.
BF4: There have been no WMD’s found….
CL: Wrong. Of course, I’m fairly sure what that statement is based upon is that no warehouse or stockpile with neon signs saying “WMD’s Stored Here” have been found. But I am sure the two Explosive Ordinance Disposal people who were exposed to Sarin when an field expedient munitions device they were disarming exploded will argue with you. As Stormin’ Norman said, “It only takes one landmine to make it intense”, it only takes one shell, missile, rocket, canteen or bucket of a tactical chemical agent to prove the existence of WMD’s.
Then you have video evidence of Saddam’s use of WMD’s on his own people and on the Army of Iran. Toss in Former President Clinton’s comments on Larry King Live about knowing Iraqi had WMD’s on the last day of his term in office. GW acted on the best intelligence he had at hand at the moment. Keep that in mind.
BF4: ….nor have ties been established between Al Qaeda and Saddam.
CL: Although it can be debated and even though I view this with a cautious eye, the 911 Commission does show the possibility of a link. Note I said possibility. It does report of two separate meetings between Al Qaeda terrorists and agents of Iraqi’s Intelligence community. You can argue with me on this, but being an observer of Saddam and his son’s leads me to believe that the meetings were never held without approval of one of the three and knowledge of all of them. It has been reported on many occasions of the tight controls Saddam and his sons had over ever aspect of Iraqi.
Any link here is tedious to say the least. But we must never forget an old saying. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” war and hate makes strange bedfellows, even when partners have such a diversely different goal in mind.
BF4: The Justice Department, aside from John Walker Lyndh, has not successfully prosecuted one terrorist.
CL: And your point is??
BF4: The Middle East peace process is moribund….
CL: Like this is news? The Middle East has been fouled up since the British refused to give the Arabs their own state back at the end of WWI. And just how far back in history do you really wish to travel? So may I suggest that both political parties have been screwing this one up for years.
BF4: ….unemployment is up while training and benefits for the unemployed are down, ….
CL: Back up and regroup troop. The current report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows employment down and has been going down over the past several months.. It also shows over 2 million new jobs created over the past year. And as far as benefits are concerned, in my home state the benefits come from the state, not the Federal Government. So I cannot express any thoughts on why you see benefits are down. Does the Federal Government provide moneys for unemployment benefits and/or training? I’m sure they do, but never depend on the Federal Government to do what a person can do for themselves.
BF4: …the Pentagon is now investigating Halliburton….
CL: Again… you point is? Just before Eisenhower left office, he warned of the Military/Industrial Complex. If you think what Haliburton may or may not have done is an indication of wrong doings due to Cheney’s past relationship with them, might I bring to light these things have been happening as long as a private contractor has been doing business with the Government. If Cheney had not been the VP, no one would have paid much attention to the investigation. Or even if any wrong doing had occurred. Besides, what has the Pentagon investigating Haliburton to do with the price of tea in Lower Slobovia?
BF4:…No Child Left Behind is under funded, ….
CL: I haven’t really looked into this program to express an informed comment. But one comment I will make is that I’m never seen any program from Congress be as fully funded as they initially plan nor as some out in the streets believe it should be funded. Let’s see what happens during this next session of Congress.
BF4: ……and the EPA is ignoring existing laws and adjusting current toxicity levels of every thing from arsenic in our water to lead in our air.
CL: Boy, this is a two edged sword. The EPA can only do what it is funded to do and with the funds they have to work with. Yeah, I know, the funds currently comes via a Republican controlled Congress. But, and not knowing BF4’s background, I will make an odd comment here. The EPA and OSHA have probably caused more ’Outsourcing’ then any other organizations in the country. When they tighten the screws too tight in protecting us, it can seriously hurt productivity. And in doing so, increases the costs of manufacturing. When the cost gets too high, something has to give and if a price increase cannot be tolerated then finding a source for cheaper product must be found. Consider the implications.
Now having said that, both the EPA and OSHA have done great things in providing the oversight and protection of the people of this country. But all in all, not everyone can be protected from everything. Besides, I can remember a time when things were much worse in this country where the environment is concerned. If you wish a pristine environment, try Pluto. Mankind has yet to dump anything on it’s surface yet.
BF4: Corporate scandals have rocked Wall Street, resulting in the implosion of no less than three major US companies, with the resulting loses being felt on Main Street.
CL: I know how to answer this, but shall I? The corporations alluded too did not implode over night. Oh well, does Whitewater have any meaning?
Now for the rest of the story. I have noticed how the Left has taken to using Hollywood’s version of the American Cowboy as their model for GW. Notice I said Hollywood’s version. Historically, a Cowboy is dependable, conservative and given to a Live and Let Live attitude about others. They are slow to anger and take every chance to ease tensions without violence. They believe in working hard for what they get and look upon handouts as an insult. Push one too far and he will hand you your head. And he has no use for anyone expecting someone else to take care of them when they are capable of a days work.
Having made the choice between a rich woman’s Poodle and a Cowboy, I feel much safer today. Nothing more annoying in the world then a yip yapping Poodle that everyone knows will not bite you.
One thread of thought I have heard since the election is from those on the left side of the aisle who consider those from ‘red’ states are too stupid to take care of themselves. Arrogance. Pure and simple. I think it would behoove those in the offended political party to adjust their thinking and consider that maybe, just maybe those of us in ‘red’ states are sick and tired of being talked down too. Tired of picking up the bill so a politician can buy votes with welfare projects that only benefit a select few and not the nation as a whole. Maybe, just maybe we are just tired of it all.
Remember history. The Civil War did not start with the shots fired at Fort Sumter. It started in 1854, seven years earlier when what is now ‘blue’ states were forcing their economic and political will on what is now ‘red’ states. The issue of slavery was but a small part of the over all picture. The cannon fire in 1861 just opened Act II of a war that was already in process.
I stated in my original reply to BlogFrog4’s comments that this was a learning experience. The further I research his comments the more I agree with my initial statements. I had really hoped that BlogFrog4 could have given me something to really sink my teeth into and expanded my horizons. What I got was the Old Party Lines. I am disappointed.
I could continue but this has gone far enough for today.
Happy Trails
Indian Territory
13 November 2004
(revised 14 Nov 04)
